An interview with Mark Reeder

If I have learned anything in my time as a blogger on the music industry, or my time as a tester/developer in the music industry, or my time as a general blagger in the music industry, it is this. The people that really make the wheels turn, the ones that innovate, progress and drive the art forward are the people most of us would have never heard of. And these people aren’t multi-millionaires, swanning around in their Maybach’s, judging talent shows or appearing on gutter based reality shows. The real people who push the envelope, create the palettes of sound and technology that the rest of the coat tail riding members of the industry apply their “brand” to are just that. Real people. Honest, hard working and decent real people whose simple focus is the art form of making music, be it creating the tools or shaping the sounds, promoting the hard grafting artists around all the pubs and clubs and regularly dipping into their own pockets to move things forward for little or no reward or recognition. They have no brand, no sheen or glossy cover. They are also completely talented. They have no ego that requires constant massaging and they go completely unnoticed for most of the time by most of the people.

Mark Reeder is one of these people.

Mark Reeder

Mention his name to the general public and I’d wager that only a handful of people out of a thousand might know who he is and what he has achieved. If, like me, you are a student of the Manchester new wave scene, then you may be more familiar with the things he has been responsible for. As a founding member of The Frantic Elevators with Mick Hucknall, a post punk band that emerged, like so many, after the famous Sex Pistols gig at Manchester’s Lesser Free Trade Hall in 1976. Shortly after, Mark left for Berlin, becoming Factory Records representative in the city, a city famous for it’s art, it’s duality between east and west and it’s burgeoning status as the centre of the electronic music world. From here, Mark established himself at the forefront of everything that was new on the music scene, organising, corralling, promoting, performing and having as many of his fingers in as many pies as was possible. He was so influential that the Stasi, East Germany’s state security service had a large file on him and monitored him very closely.

As the 80’s turned in to the 90’s, he was at the forefront of the Techno/Trance scene, working closely with many of the emerging talents, setting up a label and being at the very centre of everything related to it. His label, MFS (Masterminded for Success) gave the world its first glimpse of rising DJ luminaries such as Paul Van Dyk, Cosmic Baby (including their collaborative work as The Visions of Shiva) and Mijk van Dijk.

Most recently, Mark has become more visible as a remixer, his work with people like German dance guru’s Blank & Jones being held in high regard. Their album ‘Reordered‘ is highly recommended. His remixes pop up all over the place and rank highly, in my opinion, as great works that maintain strong ties to the original tracks but lending them a strong and new edge. And it’s this remix work that his new release, 5point1, takes to an entirely new level, utilising multi channel audio technology to breathe new life and space into much of his best remix work, with tracks from electronic stalwarts such as Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode and former New Order front man Barney Sumner’s new outfit, Bad Lieutenant.

I caught up with Mark last week to throw some questions at him about his new work, but also about his illustrious past and even got his opinion on the current situation in music where we find ourselves bombarded with overblown karaoke contests that have the nation voting more than they do in a political election.

I started off by asking about his multifaceted career. Being a man of many talents, I said, which of his many roles gave him the most pleasure?

MR: “Thank you for recognising that. Obviously, the role that gives me the most pleasure is being a musician and music producer. That’s what I love to do the most. I’m quite diligent and love the creative process and I love being in the studio, but yes, now that you ask me, I have probably covered almost every aspect that the music business can offer. Looking back, I’ve been a roadie, a doorman, worked in a record shop, worked in a venue, played in a few bands, been a live sound engineer, researched for books and TV shows and even co-hosted them too. I’ve also hosted radio shows and written for magazines. I ran two record labels, co-ordinated every aspect of my records releases from the studio, to A&R to compiling and mastering. I also designed and conceived many of the records artwork ideas and all their Ad campaigns too, I’ve been both behind and in front of the camera, promoted gigs and events, managed bands and artists and I have made and produced other peoples music as well as my own music and now I’m enjoying making remixes. And I’m also very proud to be the first and only Englishman ever to have been allowed to produce an album in Communist East Berlin (in fact, it was their last album too!). Although at times my career has been very challenging and, on rare occasions, disappointing, there have been many highs too. It’s definitely been like a roller coaster ride, but I have enjoyed every minute of it. Each part has been an essential element in my career.”

FM: The new album is, as indicated by its name, a 5.1 multi-channel affair. What made you choose this approach?

5point1

MR: “I am really into the whole multi-channel wrap around “surround” sound thing. It has always fascinated me as it seemed so futuristic. Now we are in the future and it is possible to do it. Quad (four channel quadraphonic sound), which was presented in the late 60’s and early 70’s, sounded like a brilliant idea, but it was unaffordable and no one I knew had such a sound system. Surround in the 80s and 90s made watching movies at home a much more enjoyable experience, but then came DVDs and multi-channel 5.1 and that really gave me goose bumps. The decision to make a 5.1 album was something I thought would be a bit of a challenge, so I talked my studio partner, Micha Adam, into it. I guess we wanted to see if we could do it. We planned it for quite a while. I admit, I was greatly inspired by the 5.1 releases of the Depeche Mode, King Crimson or Pink Floyd albums but I thought, why do only these big artists get the chance to release their music in 5.1? I wanted to hear some of my other favourite artists music in 5.1 too. So I had to do it myself. Luckily, I had already been given the chance to remix some of my favourite artists as well, so Micha and I just thought it would be good to go back and re-remix all of them in 5.1 and see if we could release them as an album. That album has become ‘Five Point One'”.

FM: Multi-channel audio has never really taken off in the way some hoped it might. Why do you think that is?

MR: “It is still early days yet. Affordability is the main key. It’s a question of cost and also to a small degree space. Not everyone has the room for a multi-channel set up, or wants one especially when there are lots of cables involved. Although now, as the 5.1 units become wireless, smaller and affordable, I am sure more and more people will consider buying one. It’s easy to set up and it’s a great toy and once you have one you’ll wonder why you didn’t get one sooner. Also, new technological developments such as Dolby Mobile will make the new generation of smartphones and mobile game consoles 5.1 compatible too. This will take listening to music to a different level and hopefully drive music producers to be more creative, because you really have to think about what comes where when making a true 5.1 mix. It took stereo over thirty years to finally reach the household in the late 60s. Some people said that would never take off too. Today we take stereo for granted. Let’s face it, what is the point of having a nice flat screen TV and watching all your films in simple stereo? It is so 20th century.”

FM: So, what piece of music or body of music would you love to hear in a multi-channel environment?

Electric Ladyland

MR: “That is a very very difficult question to answer. Some of Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland could sound great I imagine, but then again that is an album that was made in stereo and any attempt to make it 5.1 is not really going to work unless you have access to the original 24 track masters, which is a given for any 5.1 mix. It has to be something that was initially made for surround in the first place like the Fanstasia score or written especially for 5.1 as it is a very delicate operation. One album I think would work well in 5.1 is Global Communication’s ‘76:14‘ album. A magnificent piece of work. There are lots of sounds and space to play with.”

FM: I often get frustrated when people refer to music in 5.1 as “surround”. I prefer the tag “multi-channel”. What’s your view?

MR: “I guess “surround” is simply the easiest way to describe the sound effect. People can understand that. When the term multi-channel or 5.1 is used, you see the blank expressions because it is not a household term. What the hell does 5.1 mean? What is multi- channel? Is it like my TV? That has multi-channels too. It can be confusing. “Surround” is like the term “Techno” or “Classical” for music. It is a bit vague but it is a term everyone can get their heads around and it encompasses everything in that genre. It is only when you begin to dissect it and choose the part that interests you, that you can start to become technical and more precise. I initially considered calling the album “Surround”, but then Björk’s 5.1 album collection was already called “Surrounded” and so I decided that what it should be called, is simply what it is. ‘Five Point One’.”

FM: Have you ever dabbled with/considered binaural as a way of presenting music? Could there be a market now that so many people listen to music via headphones?

MR: “Considered in the past, yes. In the late 70’s and early 80’s there was a series of what was known as “Kunstkopf” records released by people like Edgar Froese. These were binaural recordings and sounded very wide and a bit 3D on your headphones. Naturally, I snapped these albums up and would listen to them in awe, but it was a bit of a solitary affair and not an experience you could share with your friends. The wider stereo-all-around effect looked promising with the release of the very ambient Psychic TV album, ‘Dreams Less Sweet‘ which was recorded using the incredible Zuccarelli Holograph. It produced a similar binaural effect, although that album could at least be played on a normal stereo system and the 3D effect could be heard and actually sounded very good. Incidentally, I think that would make an amazing album in 5.1. In an attempt to push the boundaries of CD audio, I released on my MFS label the first album by Cosmic Baby in super-wide B.A.S.E stereo, which stands for Bedini Audio Spatial Environment. It sounded fantastic on CD. However, it proved to be very limited because it was in super-wide stereo only and not at all mono compatible, rendering any radio play or mono play virtually impossible. Binaural is great for headphones, but the effect is lost on listening in stereo with your mates. At least with 5.1 you can all share the listening experience.”

FM: What plans do you have for future 5.1 releases or is 5point1 a one off?

MR: “Naturally I would love to do more 5.1 productions. It is all a question of production cost, as it is not easy or cheap to do. The mixing down process alone is much more time consuming and mastering is also quite difficult. You have to get the balance right so that it basically sounds good on almost every system. Then again, each sound system is set up to meet individual taste.”

FM: Martyn Ware of Heaven 17 fame runs a company called Illustrious with Vince Clarke that specialises in three dimensional audio installations. Is that something you’d like to get into or is that more about the “art”?

MR: “That sounds very interesting, but it is all about finding funding for such art projects and I really don’t have that kind of money myself to set up or develop my ideas in such an artistic way. I would like to though if ever given the chance. As a hopeless film addict, I am much more interested in making film music to be honest.”

FM: Illustrious were also used to provide the 3D audio for Heaven 17’s last gig in London’s Roundhouse in October. Is the live environment more suited to multi-channel audio and would it be successful?

MR: “I honestly don’t really know. Maybe in the future it could be. At the moment I’m not so convinced of multi-channel surround in the live or club environment. This doesn’t mean it won’t happen. I’ve seen it used to great effect when I saw Pink Floyd perform in front of the Reichstag in the late 80’s. Their gig was a kind of quad/surround event. It actually sounded amazing because they used the surround effect very sparingly, but after that, every attempt I’ve seen since to make a live surround sound concert has sadly failed. I think this is mainly due to the fact that the performers don’t really fully understand what it should do. Although people seem to like the idea, they don’t understand how to use it properly. Remember, in a club you don’t stand only in the middle. The people are all around and move about constantly and that means they mostly only get to hear what is coming from the front or one corner. The most recent attempt at displaying the advantages of a surround system in a club I saw a few years ago in the Tresor club in Berlin. The company, ISONO, installed a 16 channel sound system in the club. It was a very interesting idea and in a cinema could work wonderfully, but didn’t work for club music at all, that’s because most club music is made in closed pan stereo (virtually mono) for a louder sound on vinyl. The ISONO system allowed the DJ to position the sound to each individual speaker using a touch pad, but this made the sound jump from one speaker to the next and all the other speakers were left dead. As you can imagine, the DJs not knowing what was happening outside of their mono monitor system out there on the dance floor, used the pad to swirl the sound around the club, which made everyone feel sick. It was very disappointing that it didn’t work, but at least they tried and that was the main thing.”

FM: You’re sometimes referred to as the guy who invented Techno, or at least discovered it and some of that genre’s finest DJ’s. Were you always about the “dance” element of music?

MR: “For the record, I definitely, definitely didn’t invent Techno! Nor did I discover it. That accolade goes to others who rightly deserve it. I had a hand in helping Techno to develop in Berlin I suppose, as I was involved in that scene from the beginning. I started my record label MFS in late 1990 and we released some early Techno and trance records. I called some of my early ambient sounding releases hypno-trance and the abbreviated Trance name stuck. That is probably where the confusion comes from. This fusion of melody and Techno came from my eagerness to inspire my friends who couldn’t get into the Techno sound. Many of my friends at that time wouldn’t go clubbing because they felt they didn’t understand the nuances of straight Techno. They really missed the tune, the hook line. I wanted to draw together the elements of melody and ambience and combine them with driving, danceable Techno energy. I wanted the music to be pulsating yet sound emotional to help to fuel the feelings of euphoria that all those E’d up people were experiencing on the dance floor. From this idea evolved what has become generally known today as Trance. Although today Trance sounds nothing like the Cosmic Baby or Visions of Shiva style tracks that I released on the first trance compilation “Tranceformed From Beyond” which consisted of my label’s first year of releases, back in early 1992.”

FM: You have been a Berlin resident for many years, seen some of that city’s most poignant moments in modern history and even been a subject of interest of the Stasi. What is it about Berlin that puts it at the heart of dance music in particular but also as a very important and influential place for art in general?

MR: “Berlin has always had this impact. Its artistic attraction became more apparent just after the First World War, as no one had anything to lose anymore and everyone went bonkers. The Berlin of the Weimar Republic gave the world an incredible and radical artistic platform. This radical freedom of expression was either stamped out or forced underground during the dark ages of the 30’s and early 40’s by the Nazis. After the war, it took a few decades for Berlin to rebuild and recover and properly re-find its feet. I feel very privileged to have been here during the 80s as the city spawned a new wave of artists and avant-garde musicians reminiscent of the 1920’s. I never thought I would experience such a musical movement like punk and new wave ever again. That was until the thrill of the fall of the Berlin Wall, which fuelled a totally new style of dance music and gave us a club experience like nowhere else in the world. By capital city standards, Berlin is a poor city and not very money motivated. If it is money you’re looking for, then Frankfurt, Hamburg or Munich are much more attractive. Berlin is a cultural city. So it is also still fairly cheap to live here too, but that is slowly changing. The thriving sub-culture is the main attraction of the city for most young people and those who are creative usually don’t have the money to splash out on flash, expensive apartments and the like. Personally, I feel Berlin is probably the only place left where free-thinking still exists and that’s why artists and outcasts are attracted to it. You can experiment and be as creative as you want to be here.”

FM: So, when you first moved to Berlin, you were the Factory Records German representative. What was Factory REALLY like?

MR: “Luckily, I was in Berlin so I didn’t get to see the day-to-day horror. I only know from speaking with Rob Gretton or Bernard Sumner about some of the madness. Factory was, in my opinion, a great idea and it put Manchester firmly on the musical map like no other. Financially it seems it was a nightmare. Having run my own label, I know now what that experience can be like.

FM: You worked with New Order for a while. Do you have a view on the whole New Order break up “thing” with Hooky gigging old Joy Division stuff and Barney, Gillian and Stephen reforming New Order without him?

MR: “Hooky left New Order and went on tour playing Joy Division covers. That was his choice. So he can’t complain if the remaining members decide to carry on as New Order without his involvement. That’s how things go. A few good things came out of it too. Bernard formed Bad Lieutenant and I got to remix them!”

FM: What memories do you have of Ian Curtis?

Ian Curtis

MR: “Quite a few, although it is not like you remember or recorded everything he said or did. I remember him as a funny and intelligent person and you could always have a good conversation with him, if the subject was right. We had similar interests in music and history. One moment always comes to mind when I’m asked this question, and that was Ian telling me that he had recently had his palm read by Lindsey Reade and she told him he was going to live till he was 80!”

FM: You recently judged a music competition for me. What do you think of the current music scene, be it dance or otherwise? Is it stagnating or too much about the “product” (i.e. X-Factor, etc)?

MR: The first time I heard the term “product” at the MIDEM music trade fair in 1991, I shuddered. The term made me think. Music was always music to me and that “product” was a record. This suit, who was dealing away other peoples music, probably had no idea what had to be actually done to get it to the stage of it being a sellable “product”. He could have been selling washing machines. Unfortunately, this term has now become the adjective for potential success. The product is the entire package. Most kids think that to get anywhere you have to go to a casting and through a series of auditions coupled with humiliation. It obviously looks like it is easier than slogging about clubs and bars for years. The yearning to be “a star” is greater than learning the trade. After all, if you are good you will be noticed, eventually…or? Maybe not today. Thankfully not everyone thinks this way, and there are a lot of anti-casting-show-kids out there who are determined to prove they can do it without the aid of a panel of judges. It should be noted the talent show is nothing new. Back in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s we had talent shows too such as Opportunity Knocks which was equally as cringe worthy. They gave us the Bee Gees etc. So it wasn’t only in the Eastern Bloc where you had to perform before a panel of brown-suited old blokes, who determined if you were musically proficient enough to allow you to perform before an audience and own an electric guitar. I try and listen to new music whenever I can and I am always grateful to hear something new. I’ve discovered there is a lot of really good, new music out there, if you can find it, and that is the main problem. In the past making a record was something very special. You would hear a track in a shop, club or from friends or on the John Peel radio show. Today there are so many outlets to listen to music and the fact that almost anyone can make a track and upload it somewhere that makes this task increasingly difficult. So I find myself relying on blogs like yours to discover the majority of new music I hear, whereas in the past I would discover it in a record store. I listen to all kinds of music actually, but my passion is mainly for electronic music of all genres and film music. There is no longer one current music scene, there are several. Sadly, the singular “current music and fashion scene” has faded into history. There are so many separate scenes today, each one with their latest crop of new and exciting artists. It all depends on which style of music you choose to listen to and the accompanying fashion trend that goes along with it. Personally, I have been inspired recently by the many young artists making 80’s sounding music. It enlightened me to revisit my past and use the technology of today to attain a sound that was reminiscent of those times. I admit I was prodded into doing this through remixing Blank & Jones, but I decided to have a go regardless and with it I discovered how enjoyable and refreshing it was making songs. From that came the “Reordered” album and eventually the idea for my 5.1 album.

FM: It has been suggested, particularly by this correspondent, that as the world heads into desperately hard times, that the music made will reflect that, as it did in the 70’s and 80’s. Do you agree that some of the greatest music is borne out of hard times or harsh environments?

MR: “Absolutely, I do. Music has always been a vehicle for expressing feelings in every way. The question is what can we expect? How are hard times to be defined enough so that new music is allowed to emerge out of them? Young people seem attracted more and more to escapism or musical styles that have already lived through such hard times. We have had 25 years of hip-hop, over 20 years of Techno, over 30 of punk and decades of rock, and all genres seem to be going strong. This is probably due to the continuous availability of cheap and easy plug-ins or access to apps of retro instruments for iPhone and iPad etc. Maybe they are hoping something will rub off and they can feel the spirit that drove the original sound of that era. Since the turn of the century we have experienced an increased forecast of impending bad times. The “Alliance” has been at war since 2001 and that conflict hasn’t given us much to sing about. “Go tell it on the mountain” took on a whole new meaning after the US bombed Bora Bora. As the world enters into yet another promised global economic meltdown, do you think people will be singing about it? Not many. Vietnam protest veteran Joan Baez dusted off her acoustic guitar to strum a few chords to the Occupy movement blocking off Wall Street, but it has hardly lead to a flood of anti-globalisation protest songs hitting the shelves. Unemployment is no longer a new and frightening prospect, indeed it has become a normal aspect of daily life and people are presented with so many distractions it is difficult to be simply bored like in the 70’s. A split society has always existed between the haves and the have nots, so what is new there? I believe that the world is heading towards watching a conflict unfold with Iran. Maybe once Israel finally nukes them (or at least instigates it) maybe people will finally stop and start to think about what we are and who we are on this planet and we will see and hear something definite and new emerge.”

FM: What’s next for Mark Reeder? Ever considered writing an autobiography?

MR: Apart from a handful of remixes, I plan to release the “Don’t Tell Me Stories” album by my former 80’s band Die Unbekannten, for the first time on CD and also remaster the Die Vision “Torture” album that I produced in East Berlin. I discovered some cassettes with pre-production demos that I made during the recording process and they would make up a nice special edition CD. As for writing an autobiography, well no, as I don’t know anyone who would want to publish it let alone read it. If you want to read something, then check out Dave Rimmer’s book “Once Upon A Time In The East” or the stuff I wrote years ago on MySpace.”

Mark’s album, ‘5point1” is out now in a limited special edition and goes on global sale on December 19th 2011. Check out some of the tracks in regular stereo here…